Los aliados y el Holocausto

El genocidio nazi contra los judíos

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Los aliados y el Holocausto

Mensaje por wintermute » Mié Oct 13, 2010 12:31 am

Bien, sigamos, el 4 de Julio de 1944 Jhon J. Mc Cloy respondía a al WRB que no había aviones disponibles para atacar las vías férreas en Hungría - y así por lo menos interrumpir los trenes que conducían a 400.000 húngaros a Auschwitz-.
La historia dice que fueron gaseados por los nazis en un período de 52 días durante 1944.
Cuestión de prioridades ...
Tendríamos que ver: que le pide específicamente el WRB al Sr. Mc. Cloy, aunque podemos inferirlo leyendo la respuesta de este último.

Por ahora solo tenemos la respuesta de Mc Cloy, que es bastante clara de por si.

A continuación la lista de operaciones de los norteamericanos por esos días.
Se incluyen las misiones de las diferentes fuerzas aéreas norteamericanas inclusive las que no operaban sobre europa.
No están incluidas las misiones de la RAF.
Qué estaba haciendo la RAF por esas fechas?
pues, se los digo : quemando civiles alemanes por decenas de miles.
Esa era la prioridad.

Al punto: veamos a que se dedicaban los aviones norteamericanos en esas fechas -alrededor del 4-7-44-

June 30, 1944

Eighth AF 136 HBs attack A/Fs at Montdidier, Evreux/Fauville, Conches, Le Culot, and

Coxyde/Furnes. P-51's furnish escort and afterwards strafe M/Ys, A/Fs, barges, barracks, a train,

a factory, and a warehouse with good results. No enemy aircraft are encountered and no airplanes

are lost.

FEAF Barges, troop concentrations, and other T/Os near Nyaparake and Suain are attacked.

Kamiri and Namber A/Fs, supply areas, and defensive positions on Noemfoor I are hit. Tobera and

Erventa I are also bombed.

Fifteenth AF Bad weather causes over 450 HBs and more than 150 ftrs to abort missions. 188

HBs, escorted by 138 ftrs, hit A/F at Zagreb and T/Os in Hungary and Yugoslavia, including M/Ys

at Kaposvar, Osztopan and Split, highway bridge at Brac I, A/F at Banjaluka, and city of

Budapest. 130-plus ftrs provide escort."

Fourteenth AF MBs and FBs again pound numerous tgts in Tungting Lake area, concentrating on

river shipping, town areas, troop concentrations, and road traffic. Towns bombed include

Pingkiang, Hengshan, Liling, Yuhsien, Siangyin, and Chuchou. Also hit is A/F at Hengyang and

bridges at Leiyang and Liling. 15 P-40's over NE Indochina damage bridge approaches at Phu Lang

Thuong and blast 3 trains.

Ninth AF 125-plus B-26's and A-20's, using blind-bombing methods in bad weather, bomb fuel

dumps and road junctions at Conde-sur-Vire, Foret de Conches, Conde-sur-Noireau, and

Thury-Harcourt. Around 250 others are forced to abort due to weather. 600-plus ftrs escort bmrs,

fly cover over the beach, and bomb M/Ys at Chartres and Verneuil-surAvres, bridges E of Paris,

and Evreux-Bueil, and Breux-sur-Avre-Trappes rail lines. The ftrs fly armed rcn in Seine-Loire

gap and along the Loire, and Continent-based ftrs of IX TAC attack comm tgts in adv of US and

British positions.

Seventh AF P-47's on Saipan continue to pound entry forces remaining on Saipan, Tinian, and


Tenth AF 47 B-25's continue Imphal ammo run while 17 B-25's haul gasoline to Kamaing. 18

B-25's bomb Tamu and 6 hit Wainggyo. 11 P-38's attack Myitnge bridge.
Twelfth AF Weather again restricts MB operations but B-25's attack Pietrasanta railway

bridge and Marradi viaduct and tunnel. FBs hit rail lines, bridges, railroad cars, guns, motor

transport, and other tgts along battleline and area to the N in Pistoia area.

July 01, 1944

Seventh AF At dawn 4 B-24's radar-bomb southern Shimushu and Kurabu Cape A/F through


FEAF B-24's bomb A/F at Namlea and hit shipping throughout the Amboina-Ceram-Boeroe area.

Other B-24's, B-25's, A-20's and FBs hit A/F, AA guns, bivouacs, supplies, and Japanese defenses

on Noemfoor I in preparation for Allied landings on 2 Jul. A/F at Manokwari is also bombed. Bmrs

and ftrs continue to pound Wewak coastal area; many of the strikes are in conjunction with Navy

PT boats. A few B-24's on armed rcn bomb tgts on Yap and Peleliu.

Fourteenth AF B-25's and FBs again pound tgts throughout Tungting Lake region. River shipping

is attacked on large scale at numerous locations and 250-300 trucks are strafed between Tungcheng

and Pingkiang. Hengyang A/F is bombed as are towns of Pingkiang, Hengshan, Liling, and Yuhsien.

Pontoon bridge and Japanese positions at Leiyang are also hit. B-24's lay mines in river at

Canton during the night.

Ninth AF IX ADC is activated in UK by Ninth AF to provide air defense behind the advancing

Allied ground forces in N Europe. CG is Gen Richardson. Weather prevents operations by IX BC. 47

ftrs escort TCs and fly sweeps in Vire area where about 20 ftrs bomb tac tgts.

Seventh AF P-47's fly bombing and strafing missions over Saipan, Tinian, and Rota. B-24's,

staging through Eniwetok, hit Truk during 1/2 Jul and follow up with another raid during the day.

Makin-based B-25's bomb Ponape.

Tenth AF 8 P-40's fly ground spt missions in Myitkyina area. 2 B-25's bomb rail tgts at

Mohnyin and Naba.

Twelfth AF LBs and MBs hit fuel dumps, rail bridges, viaducts, and docks in NC Italy. FBs

concentrate on road and rail bridges behind battle area, destroy several ftrs in combat over

Reggio Emilia A/F, and hit guns S of Carsoli.

July 02, 1944

Eighth AF 280 HBs attack 13 V-weapon sites in Pas de Calais area. 41 P-51's, temporarily in

Italy while en route from USSR to UK during shuttle mission, join Fifteenth AF ftrs in escorting

Fifteenth AF HBs against tgts in Budapest area, claiming 9 aircraft destroyed and suffering 4



B-24's, B-25's, and A-20's, and FBs, along with naval guns, bombard Kamiri area of Noemfoor I,

after which Allied amphibious forces land with little opposition and secure beachhead. Other

B-25's attack barges near Manokwari.
Fourteenth AF 11 B-25's and 42 FBs again attack river shipping, compounds, and troop

concentrations in Tungting Lake region. Also town of Hengshan is bombed. B-25's and P-51's pound

A/F and town area at Lupao.

Ninth AF

All IX BC missions cancelled due to bad weather. Ftrs of 7 gps of IX TAC fly interception

missions in Caen area and cover over beach area, attack rail lines along the Loire, and hit a HQ

and supply dumps and strongpoints near La Haye-du-Puits.

Seventh AF P-47's on Saipan bomb and strafe forces on Saipan, Tinian, and Rota.
Tenth AF 7 P-40's continue spt of ground forces in Myitkyina area. 2 B-25's hit railroad

tracks at Pinwe and Katha.

Twelfth AF MBs and LBs continue to pound enemy comm lines N of battle area (mainly along and

N of Pisa-Florence line) and hit several fuel dumps with good results. FBs are active against

motor transport and bridges immediately N of battleline.
July 03, 1944

Eighth AF 55 B-17's in Italy on USSR shuttle mission join Fifteenth AF HBs in bombing M/Ys

at Arad. 38 P-51's of VIII FC, also on shuttle run, fly escort on the mission.

FEAF P-38's and B-25's hit personnel and supply areas S of Kamiri and spt invading ground

forces as they push E along N coast of Noemfoor I. Efman I, Manokwari, and Biak I are attacked by

B-24's, A-20's, and ftrs. Wewak coastal area continues under sustained air attack as Allied

airplanes pound tgts including forces at Brandi Plantation and supplies and a bridge near But.

HBs hit airstrips, AA positions, and T/Os in Yap group, at Woleai, and at Peleliu. Larat and

Saumlakki are also bombed.

July 03, 1944

Fifteenth AF More than 600 B-24's and B-17's attack oil storage, oil refinery, and locomotive

works at Bucharest, oil storage at Giurgiu, railroad tgts at Turnu-Severin, bridge at Piatra,

M/Ys at Arad and Timisoara, bridge at Szeged, and oil storage at Belgrade. Ftrs fly over 250

sorties in spt of missions.

Fourteenth AF In Tungting Lake area 4 B-24's bomb Yoyang railroad yards. B-25's and P-40's

pound river shipping, bridges, gun sites, compounds, and villages at several locations, including

Leiyang, Ssutang, Yungfengshih, and Tsungyang. B-25's drop ammo to Chinese ground forces at

Hengyang. P-40's damage bridge at Phu Lang Thuong and hit nearby T/Os.

Ninth AF Nearly 275 ftrs strafe and bomb strongpoints, gun positions, fuel dump, comm

lines, bridges, and patrol beach in vicinity of Lessay and Periers, S of US First Army's adv.
Seventh AF P-47's continue to hit troops remaining on Saipan, Tinian, and Rota. B-24's,

staging through Eniwetok, bomb Truk.

Tenth AF 20-plus FBs spt ground forces in Myitkyina area, which also is covered by

10-plane combat patrol.

Twelfth AF B-26's and A-20's pound enemy fuel dumps while B-25's hit bridges tunnels, and

viaducts at Pietrasanta, Canneto sull'Oglio and Saviano, and fuel storage tanks in Pontelagoscuro

area. FBs blast motor transport and bridges in battle area as US Fifth Army begins drive on

Leghorn. Vehicle park, ammo dump, and a barge are also hit.

July 04, 1944

Eighth AF 256 HBs attack 7 A/Fs N and W of Paris, plus several T/Os. Bad weather and

mechanical failures cause over 350 others to abort. VIII FC flies 594 sorties during HB escort

and strafing assignments against transportation tgts.

FEAF A-20's continue spt of Allied ground forces pushing E and SE from Kamiri A/F area of

Noemfoor I and taking Kamiri village and Kornasoren A/F. P-47's strafe T/Os at nearby Biak I

while B-24's bomb A/F at Efman I. Other aircraft bomb and strafe troops E of Maffin Bay.

Personnel areas at But and Dagua and barges at Wewak Pt are also attacked. B-24's hit shipping

and A/Fs in Amboina-Ceram area. B-24's bomb Yap and hit airstrips on Woleai, Sorol, and Peleliu.

Fifteenth AF 250-plus B-17's and B-24's bomb bridge and railroad repair works at Pitesti and

oil refinery at Brasov. 350-plus ftrs escort HBs and carry out sweeps in tgt area. Claims of

enemy ftrs destroyed total 17. 1 ftr gp strafes 2 landing grounds and a troop train in Yugoslavia

on return trip to base.

Fourteenth AF 38 MBs and 74 FBs pound tgts throughout Tungting Lake-Yangtze R region and in

Yellow R and Canton areas. River shipping is hit hard, particularly along Siang-Chiang R. Troop

concentrations, road traffic, and general T/Os are hit at many locations. Towns bombed include

Shasi, Lukou, Yungfengshih, Liling, Siangtan, and Yuhsien. A/F at Hengyang is bombed and supplies

are dropped to Chinese troops in the area. A/Fs and warehouses in Canton area are bombed and T/Os

at Linfen, Wenhsi, and Puchou in Yellow R region are strafed.

Ninth AF Although bad weather curtails bmr operations, 95 B-26's and A-20's bomb rail

bridge at Oissel and strongly defended positions N of Anneville-sur-Mer, using Pathfinder

technique. More than 900 ftrs strafe and bomb numerous tgts in France including troop

concentrations, gun positions, rail lines, M/Ys, tunnel, radio station, bridges, highways, and a

cmd post. Ftrs also fly escort and cover beach and assault areas.

Seventh AF P-47's on Saipan continue FB operations against forces on Saipan, Tinian, Aguijan
and Rota Is. B-24's, staging through Eniwetok, pound Truk.
Tenth AF 30-plus P-40's continue spt of ground forces near Myitkyina. 20-plus P-47's and

P-51's fly offensive sweep over Lashio area, patrol Mogaung area, and bomb T/Os at Taungni,

Nampadaung, and Mogaung. 4 B-25's hit bridges and railroad tracks in Hopin and Naba areas.

Twelfth AF Weather cancels LB and MB operations. FB operations are greatly reduced but

attacks are made on bridges, rail lines, roads, and guns in and N of battle area as US Fifth Army

elements clear parts of Rosignano, overrun Mount Vitalba and area to its E, and push into Casole


July 05, 1944

Eighth AF 233 HBs attack 3 A/Fs in the Netherlands and 2 in Belgium, a factory near Mol,

and 3 V-weapon supply sites in France. 184 ftrs fly sorties in spt of the HBs. 70 B-17's on

shuttle mission (UK-USSR-Italy UK) attack M/Y at Beziers (with Fifteenth AF B-24's) while on last

leg from Italy to UK. 42 VIII FC P-51's return to UK with the B-17's. (Of the 11 P-51's remaining

in Italy, 10 return to UK the following day and the last several days later.)

FEAF In area around Wewak A-20's and FBs hit dumps at Dagua and attack barges during 4/5 Jul.

B-24's bomb airstrips and AA guns at Yap and Woleai; Sorol and Paliau I are also hit. Light

strikes are flown in spt of troops on Noemfoor I and against barges, A/Fs, and troop

concentrations at Efman and Biak Is and at Moemi, Manokwari, and in Wakde area.
Fifteenth AF Almost 500 B-17's and B-24's bomb Montpellier and Beziers M/Ys and Toulon

submarine pens and harbor installations. Close to 200 ftr sorties are flown in spt of the


Fourteenth AF 136 FBs and 64 MBs attack tgts throughout Tungting Lake area. Tgts include river

shipping, warehouses, troops, arty, trucks, and other T/Os at Liling, Lukou, Pingkiang,

Yungfengshih, Siangyin, and Chuting. Hengyang A/F is bombed, and supplies are dropped to Chinese

forces in the vicinity. In Salween area 40 transports drop supplies to Chinese forces on

battleline, and 4 FBs pound town and vicinity of Tengchung. 22 B-24's bomb supply and ammo depot

at Canton. 6 MBs attack A/Fs in the area. 5 B-24's lay mines in Shanghai harbor.

Ninth AF About 180 MBs and LBs bomb bridges at Caen and also rail sidings, tracks, and

rolling stock. In the afternoon 4 NOBALL HQ are hit. 600-plus ftrs escort IX BC, carry out armed

rcn of comm and enemy movements, attack rail lines, rolling stock, M/Ys, bridges, supply dumps,

and cover beach area.

Seventh AF P-47's fly FB operations over Saipan, Rota, and Tinian.

July 05, 1944

Tenth AF 20-plus P-40's and A-36's continue spt in Myitkyina sector while 12 other

airplanes fly armed rcn in same area. 20-plus other P-40's, P-51's, and A-36's hit T/Os in areas

around Hopin, Namma, and Naungtalaw. The town area of Naungtalaw also is pounded by 11 B-25's.

Twelfth AF B-25's bomb Villafranca di Verona M/Y, Aulla railroad bridge, and Ostiglia fuel

dumps while A-20's blast supply dump and rail lines. FBs hit tracks, bridges, roads, and other

tgts in battle area as US Fifth Army continues fierce fighting around Rosignano.
July 06, 1944 - 23 MACRs for this date

Eighth AF 231 B-24's bomb dock area at Kiel during morning while 687 HBs bomb 18 V-weapon

sites, 7 A/Fs, a M/Y and a highway intersection. 3 HBs and 2 ftrs are lost. In the late afternoon

220 HBs strike 6 V-weapon sites and supply installations, 3 railroad bridges, a highway bridge,

and an A/F in N France. 471 ftrs escort the HBs. Afterwards a sq of P-47's dive-bombs 3 A/Fs in

Conches area. No aircraft are lost on afternoon mission.

FEAF B-25's, A-20's, and FBs continue to pound Wewak area, concentrating on troops S of

Matapau. B-25's and FBs sweep N coast of Vogelkop Peninsula and offshore islands, hitting T/Os.

Other FBs hit Manokwari area and buildings at Ransiki, Moari, and Oransbari. A/Fs, gun positions,

comm tgts, and supply dumps in area around Babo are hit by B-24's, A-26's, A-20's, and P-38's.

B-24's bomb town and warehouse area of Yap and a few hit A/F at Woleai.

Fifteenth AF 530-plus B-17's and B-24's attack Verona M/Y, Bergamo steel works, Avisio

viaduct, Tagliamento-Casarsa della Delizia railroad bridge, Aviano oil and gasoline storage,

Porto Marghera oil storage, and Trieste oil refinery. P-51's and P-38's provide escort.

Fourteenth AF B-25's, P-40's, and P-51's continue to pound river shipping, bridges, troop

concentrations, road traffic, and general T/Os throughout wide area around Tungting Lake and

along the Yangtze. Hit particularly hard are town area and supply depot at Sinshih. B-25's near

Burma border cause considerable damage at Tengchung and drop supplies to Chinese ground forces on

Salween front, and during 6/7 Jul bomb Tien Ho A/F at Canton.

Ninth AF During the morning around 500 B-26's and A-20's bomb bridges and rail lines at 8

locations in France. In afternoon 5 tgts are attacked, including bridges, fuel dumps, railroad

tracks, and V-weapon location. Over 15 ftr gps escort bmrs, fly armed rcn of rail lines, roads,

and M/Ys, damaging or destroying tracks, trains, tunnel, building, and supply dump. Ftrs also

cover beach and bomb and strafe troop concentrations and gun positions.

Seventh AF P-47's bomb and strafe forces on Saipan, Rota, and Tinian. B-24's, staging

through Eniwetok, pound Truk during 5/6 Jul and follow with another raid during the day. B-25's,

based at Makin, hit Nauru.
Tenth AF 12 P-40's attack bridge near Myitkyina while 40-plus others spt ground forces in

the area. Several other P-40's attack Maingna, barracks at Sahmaw, train at Taungni, and troops

at Sakangyi. 6 B-25's bomb Maingna and 2 hit Mohnyin.

Twelfth AF A-20's hit ammo ship at La Spezia during 5/6 Jul and continue attacks on fuel

supplies during the day. MBs again hit comm, concentrating on bridges N of battleline, and attack

enemy warehouses and HQ. FBs hit rail lines (with especially good results between Viareggio and

Massa Lombarda ) and damage several bridges just N of battle area as US Fifth Army continues

clearing Rosignano and takes Castellina Marittima and Mount Vaso.

Twentieth AF Gen Saunders becomes CG XX BC.

July 07, 1944

Eighth AF Over 1,000 HBs attack 3 synthetic oil plants, 8 aircraft assembly plants and

engine works, 2 A/Fs and an equipment depot, 2 M/Ys a railway station, railway repair shops, and

city of Hameln, all in Germany. 37 HBs are lost during the day's operations, 649 ftrs escort HBs.

42 P-38's and 124 P-47's make strafing attacks, destroying parked aircraft, locomotives, and

rolling stock. Ftrs claim 77 aircraft destroyed in aerial combat and 4 on ground. 6 ftrs are


FEAF B-24's and A-20's bomb Moemi and Nabire A/Fs; supply dumps along Wiske R are also

attacked. A few FBs and RAAF aircraft attack barges, gun positions, and troops along coast in

Wewak area. B-24's bomb Yap, Sorol I radio station, and runway on Woleai.

Fifteenth AF 560-plus B-24's and B-17's bomb 2 synthetic oil plants at Blechhammer, synthetic

oil and coking plant at Odertal, and Zagreb A/F and M/Y. HBs and ftr escorts claim more than 50

aircraft shot down during fierce battle with 275-300 ftrs mainly in Vienna-Budapest area. 18 US

aircraft are listed as destroyed and a larger number missing.

Fourteenth AF In Tungting Lake area B-25's and FBs hit Yoyang, Siangtan, Liling, and

Yungfengshih, strafe cav forces N of Yuhsien, hit river shipping, troops, and pontoon bridge at

Siangsiang, attack compounds in Leiyang area, and bomb storage at Shihshow. 10 mi E of Ichang on

the Yangtze P-40's thoroughly blast Japanese post. B-25's and P-51's bomb Tien Ho and White Cloud

A/Fs and pound town of Tsingyun.

Ninth AF 100-plus A-20's and B-26's bomb rail bridge near Tours, and T/Os in Lisieux and

Beuzeville areas. Over 500 ftrs fly escort and area cover, carry out armed rcn of comm and troop

activity, and bomb railroads, rolling stock, M/Ys, ammo dumps, and bridges in front-line areas

and wide areas of W France.

Seventh AF P-61's carry out interceptor missions over Guam, Saipan, and Rota during 6/7 Jul.

Tenth AF 20 FBs hit T/Os at Okkyin and Namkwin and strafe trucks near Myitkyina. 4 B-25's

attack bridges and railroad tracks at Hopin and Naba.

Twelfth AF During 6/7 Jul A-20's bomb La Spezia harbor and motor transport in the area, and

resume attack on fuel supplies during the day. B-26's and B-25's score direct hits on railway

bridges at Reggio Emilia, and over the Fratta R and possible hits on Santa Maria di Mugnano

bridge and 2 other bridges in the area; they also hit Collecchio fuel dump, causing many fires

and explosions. FBs attack Ferrara A/F, town of Empoli, and rail lines, bridges, fuel and ammo

dumps, motor transport, and numerous other tgts in battle area as US Fifth Army forces complete

clearing of Rosignano.

Twentieth AF 14 B-29's, operating out of Chengtu during 7/8 Jul, bomb Sasebo, Omura, and

Tobata (most of the planes hitting Sasebo area). 3 others attack secondary and last resort tgts

at Laoyao and in Hankow area.

July 08, 1944

Eighth AF 467 HBs, operating in 4 forces, bomb 13 railroad facilities (bridges, junctions,

sidings, lines, viaducts, and embankments), 3 M/Ys, a highway junction, 5 A/Fs, and 10 V-weapon

installations, all in France. Nearly 450 others are forced to abort, mainly because of very heavy

cloud conditions. 9 HBs are lost. 14 ftr gps spt day's operations. 596 ftrs complete sorties,

claiming 20 aircraft, 15 locomotives, and several railroad cars and road vehicles destroyed by

strafing and bombing. 1 ftr is lost.

FEAF MBs and FBs hit fuel dumps, barges, villages, and various other tgts at Babo, Fak Fak,

Sagan, Kokas, at mouth of Maroe R, along Cape Kariensore, and W of Namber. B-25's, A-20's, FBs

and a few HBs attack Woleai, hitting barges, gun positions, and comm tgts.

Fifteenth AF 520-plus HBs attack tgts in Vienna area, bombing refineries at Vosendorf and

Korneuburg, A/F at Zwolfaxing, Markersdorf, and Munchendorf, and M/Y and oil storage at

Vienna/Floridsdorf, and A/F at Veszprem. Ftrs fly well over 200 sorties in spt of HB missions

which are opposed by more than 100 ftrs. 14 US aircraft are lost. HBs and ftrs claim more than 50

ftrs shot down.

Fourteenth AF MBs and FBs fly nearly 100 sorties against tgts in Tungting Lake area. River

shipping is hit hard throughout the whole lake area. Trucks, bridges, warehouses, supply dumps,

troop concentrations, Japanese posts, and T/Os are attacked at Sinshih, Sinyang, Leiyang, Liling,

Chuchou, Puchi, Siangsiang, and Yuhsien. 18 B-24's bomb military area near Canton, and 37 P-40's

attack Japanese-held villages and river shipping NW of Canton. In Indochina 10 P-40's hit

shipping all along coast while 5 B-26's knock out 2 bridges at Cam Lo. 20 Japanese airplanes bomb

Suichwan A/F, rendering it temporarily unusable. Enemy airplanes also damage Kanchou A/F.

Ninth AF About 280 MBs and LBs bomb V-weapon HQ at Chateau-deRibeaucourt, numerous

strongpoints in Caen battle area, rail bridges at Mantes-La-Jolie, Saumur, Nogent-leRoi, and Caen

and (late in evening) fuel dumps in Rennes and bridge at Nantes. Ftrs escort the bmrs and fly

armed rcn throughout wide areas of France, concentrating on front-line area. Tgts hit include

M/Ys, bridges, ammo and supply dumps, troop concentrations and tanks.

Seventh AF P-47's fly FB operations against troops on Saipan, Pagan, and Tinian. During 7/8

Jul B-24's stage through Eniwetok and bomb Truk. More B-24's follow with another raid during the


Tenth AF 30-plus A-36's and P-40's hit bridge at Myitkyina and spt ground forces in the

area. 12 B-25's also pound Myitkyina.

Twelfth AF During 7/8 Jul A-20's bomb areas in or near Empoli, Agliana, and Lucca, and hit

fuel dumps the following day. MBs pound M/Ys at Novi Ligure, Piacenza, Mantua, and Ferrara and

tracks near Parma. FBs again blast railroads, roads, and bridges N of battleline, which is

advancing N from above Cecina toward Leghorn.

July 09, 1944

Eighth AF During morning mission 140 B-17's bomb 2 railroad bridges, a railroad viaduct, a

road bridge, and an A/F in France. 1 HB and 2 supporting ftrs are lost. Later, 24 B-17's and 35

B-24's bomb 3 CROSSBOW installations and 2 A/Fs in France; bad weather causes over 100 other HBs

to abort. 168 ftrs escort the HBs. 1 P-47 gp afterwards joins RAF Spitfires in aerial battle

against 15 Me 109's. The P-47's claim 5 ftrs destroyed against no losses; Spitfires down 6


FEAF A-20's and FBs pound shipping, A/Fs, troops, and other tgts at Babo, Manokwari, Efman,

Biak and various points along coastline of Geelvink Bay. B-25's and FBs sink a 3,000-ton vessel

and several barges around Halmahera I. Dumps at Marubian, Kairiru, and Niap and bridge at But are

bombed by B-25's, A-20's, and FBs. B-24's bomb Namlea A/F and attack Yap and Woleai.

Fifteenth AF In the Fifteenth's first Pathfinder-led mission, 222 B-17's and B-24's bomb Xenia

and Concordia Vega oil refineries at Ploesti. P-38's and P-51's fly escort. Other P-51's sweep

Ploesti area during the attacks. HBs and ftrs claim destruction of 14 of the 40-50 opposing ftrs.

6 US aircraft are shot down.

Fourteenth AF 40 P-40's and 8 B-25's hit town area, trucks, and supply sampans at Shayang and

damage tunnel entrances and highway bridge at Sinyang. 5 B-25's bomb power plant and building

area at Tinh Soc.

Ninth AF Of more than 250 MBs and LBs dispatched, about 60 bomb tgts in France; bad

weather prevents others from bombing. Tgts hit are rail bridge, crossing, overpass and highway

bridge at Ablis, Orleans, Vendome, and Montfort-sur-Risle. Ftrs escort IX BC, provide area cover

over battle area, and bomb and strafe gun positions, vehicles, rail cars, bridges, and tanks.

Seventh AF P-47's hit remnants of Japanese forces on Saipan and Tinian, as organized

resistance on Saipan ends. Saipan will become a base from which B-29's will bomb Japan.

Makinbased B-25's bomb Jaluit.

Tenth AF 60-plus A-36's, P-51's, P-47's, and P-40's spt ground forces and hit bridge in

Myitkyina area, strafe gun positions at Shwebo and tgts along the Irrawaddy in Katha area, and

attack T/Os in areas around Loilaw, Hopin, Mohnyin, Maingna, Anisakan, and Onbauk. 19 B-25's hit

storage sheds at Waingmaw and railroads and bridges at Mohnyin, Naba, and Hopin.

Twelfth AF Weather greatly curtails operations. FBs attack rail lines between Empoli and

Montelupo Fiorentino with good results. Other tgts include roads, bridges and gun positions.

Las fuentes: http://www.armyairforces.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Seguimos en otro momento y por favor sepan disculpar los errores de gramaticales y de ortografía.


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Re: Los aliados y el Holocausto

Mensaje por motorsalva » Vie Nov 12, 2010 11:44 pm

Salud a todos y a todas.
Sin duda un tema triste pero también muy interesante.
Se habla de bombardear Auschwitz. Creo que simplemente con bombardear uno o dos campos de exterminio, aunque hubiera salvado muchas vidas, tampoco habría sido algo tan definitivo, pues era tan grande la red logística, de información y de represión que se construyó para la Solución Final que creo que los métodos expeditivos no habrían tenido todo el efecto deseado.
Si los angloamericanos hubieran apoyado más abiertamente los movimientos de resistencia en Francia, Bélgica, Holanda etc... esto quizás habría podido ser más efectivo, aunque claro, la parte este de europa se les escapa de su cobertura aérea.
Por otra parte, creo que a los militares no les interesaba involucrarse en ese tema, bastantes preocupaciones tenían ya con la campaña de bombardeos sobre los objetivos civiles y militares de Alemania y territorios ocupados.
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Re: Los aliados y el Holocausto

Mensaje por Hans-Ulrich-Rudel » Jue Dic 09, 2010 6:50 pm

O por que estratégicamente era muy difícil destruir ciertas instalaciones sin causar bajas humanas.
O porque militarmente no iba a cambiar nada del transcurso de la guerra.
O porque directamente no interesaba y pasaron del tema.

Aun que no tenga nada que ver con el tema, almenos directamente pero si indirectamente, yo soy de los de la opinión de que los EEUU entraton en la guerra por infinidad intereses, economicos, territoriales, políticos, etc... pero públicamente usaron el pretexto del holocausto.
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Re: Los aliados y el Holocausto

Mensaje por maxtor » Vie Dic 10, 2010 2:22 pm

Saludos cordiales a todos.

Es un tema interesante y por lo que se ve algo polémico. Polémica porque en mi opinión el Holocausto y lo ocurrido en Alemania durante la Segunda Guerra Mundial es algo que directamente nos ataca algo en nuestro interior, para bien, o para mal, ataca nuestra conciencia cívica de ser europeos y a cierto sentimiento de "culpa" global por un antisemitismo milenario que finalmente desembocó en el intento de eliminación física de una raza.

Me han gustado mucho algunas intervenciones dando explaciones de la actitud de los aliados respecto a los campos de exterminio, y ante dicha pregunta caben tres alternativas: que los aliados conocieran los campos pero que no supieran con exactitud la magnitud de la matanza; que los aliados conocieran la existencia de los campos con todas sus consecuencias y no quisieran actuar o que no supieran nada de nada. La última opción sería peor por inutilidad y creo que por poco que se respira en el ambiente "algo" se debía percibir de lo que estaba ocurriendo y máxime para los servicios de inteligencia de los países implicados en la guerra.

Si de lo poco que he podido leer tengo en estima el valor moral de Churchill y de Roosvelth, no me cabe en la cabeza que si humanamente hubieran podido hacer algo contra el genocidio hubieran actuado. Otra cosa es que la actuación fuera rentable o eficaz para detener el exterminio y creo que ahí está la clave en los factores técnicos de lo único que se podría hacer que era bombardear los campos de exterminio, creo que hubiera retardado el exterminio pero no evitarlo.

Hay un asunto interesante y clave en mi opinión que ha sacado a colación el moderador D. Jose Luis, y es la actitud de las Iglesias cristinanas y en concreto la Católica durante el exterminio e incluso antes del mismo. Coincido en que la iglesia Católica tuvo una actitud de ambivalencia y de cautela que no quiere decir que mirara hacia otra parte pero debió plantarse contra el régimen nazi de forma tajante.

En la Alemania nazi practicamente la iglesia católica tenía mucha importancia e influencia en las zonas rurales, y se puede considerar practicamente la única entidad libre de pensamiento nazi y conservó influencia en la opinión pública para formarla contra la propaganda y política nazi.

Es de destacar los numerosos casos a nivel individual del clero contra la ideología nazi y criticando los ataques y las leyes antisemitas, pero de los estudios efectuado aun así se nota cierta ambivalencia en la cuestión racial antisemita y es censurable a nivel general el nivel de confrontación de las iglesias cristianas contra el régimen nazi.

En este aspecto el historiador Ian Kershaw, en su libro “HITLER, los Alemanas y la solución final”, parte segunda, capítulo VI, página 317 señala: “Pero la negativa de las jerarquías eclesiásticas, por los motivos que fuese, a oponerse a la falta de humanidad hacia los judíos durante la década de 1930, mientras por otro lado estaban combatiendo también, a menudo con dureza y con éxito, las medidas contrarias a la Iglesias impuestas por los nazis, impidió cualquier posibilidad de que el antisemitismo se convirtiera en un problema”.... "El odio fue lo que construyó el camino hacia Auschwitz, y la indiferencia lo que lo pavimentó”.

De un folleto de la Rosa Blanca – Munich – febrero de 1943:

“Cualquiera que abrigue todavía alguna duda sobre la existencia de lo poderes demoníacos ha malinterpretado absolutamente el trasfondo metafísico de esta guerra. Detrás de lo concreto, detrás de las percepciones materiales, detrás de todas las consideraciones expositivas y lógicas se oculta lo irracional, es decir, la batalla contra el demonio, contra los emisarios del anti-Cristo... “.

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Los aliados y el Holocausto

Mensaje por wintermute » Jue Dic 16, 2010 1:31 am

Les debía el original del documento que publicáramos anteriormente.
Esto es prueba documental, la fuente directamente.
Señores : leerlo con mucha atención y veamos que podemos deducir, juguemos un poquito a ser historiadores.
Es una buena idea para abrir nuevos temas : analizando documentos.


Fuente : http://www.fdrlibrary.marist.edu/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Señores, es todo de vosotros.


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Re: Los aliados y el Holocausto

Mensaje por cv-6 » Vie Dic 17, 2010 11:32 pm

Hans-Ulrich-Rudel escribió:O por que estratégicamente era muy difícil destruir ciertas instalaciones sin causar bajas humanas.
O porque militarmente no iba a cambiar nada del transcurso de la guerra.
O porque directamente no interesaba y pasaron del tema.

Aun que no tenga nada que ver con el tema, almenos directamente pero si indirectamente, yo soy de los de la opinión de que los EEUU entraton en la guerra por infinidad intereses, economicos, territoriales, políticos, etc... pero públicamente usaron el pretexto del holocausto.
Teniendo en cuenta que fueron las potencias del eje las que declararon la guerra a EE.UU, los norteamericanos no necesitaban ningún pretexto.
My body lies under the ocean
My body lies under the sea
My body lies under the ocean
Wrapped up in an SB2C

Un poco de ciencia aleja de Dios, pero mucha ciencia devuelve a Él (Louis Pasteur)

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Re: Los aliados y el Holocausto

Mensaje por Kurt_Steiner » Sab Dic 18, 2010 10:53 am

Se habla de bombardear los campos de concentración o las lineas ferreas. Ni entraré en la ya mencionada falta de fiabalidad del bombardeo de precisión aliado.

Vamos a suponer que se bombardean algunos campos, con mínimas perdidas humanas. O que se destruyen algunes líneas ferroviarias?

¿Alguien realmente se piensa que eso hubiera arreglado algo? ¿Que no tenía cámaras de gas a mano? Los podian matar a tiros (como en Dzyatlava, Polonia y en otras tantas partes), los podían hacer trabajar hasta la extenuación, o dejarles morir de hambre. O les podían hacer marchar de un campo destruído a otro que funcionara (a este respecto me vienen a la memoria las marchas de la muerte de los KZ en el 45).

A Himmler se le hubiera ocurrido algo. Hubieran muerto más o menos judíos, no es posible decirlo, pero hubieran seguido muriendo. No tan deprisa, pero quizás de peor modo. No es lo mismo morir gaseado que de hambre o de extenuación.

Y a los aliados se les acusaría de no haber hecho lo suficiente.

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Re: Los aliados y el Holocausto

Mensaje por Kurt_Steiner » Jue Dic 30, 2010 10:24 am

De los 908 pasajeros que retornaron con el San Luis a Europa, 288 encontraron asilo en Gran Bretaña, 181 en Holanda, 214 en Belgica y 224, de manera temporal, en Francia. De los refugiados en Bélgica, todos sobrevieron salvo uno, fallecido en un ataque aéreo en 1940. De los 620 que se quedaron en Europa, 254 murieron en los campos.

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Los aliados y el Holocausto

Mensaje por wintermute » Sab Abr 02, 2011 9:19 am

Bien , sigamos con este tema :
A continuación un documento proveniente del OSS recibido en la Casa Blanca el 17/03/43.
Les pido que lo lean con mucha atención, son documentos, las fuentes directamente.



Continuamos en otro momento.


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Los aliados y el Holocausto

Mensaje por wintermute » Mar Nov 22, 2011 5:48 pm

Bueno continuemos con este espinoso tema ...

Documento publicado por el diario alemán Bild a principios de este año proveniente de archivos desclasificados por el gobierno estadounidense en el año 2006.
Pertenece al Servicio de Inteligencia de Alemania occidental (subsidiaria de la C.I.A, no está demás aclararlo).

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/guywa ... hmann-was/

La C.I.A. tuvo a Adolf Eichmann en el freezer durante al menos diez años !!

Porqué ? , que sabía Eichmann ?, que utilidad tuvo?
Tiene que haber razones para ello.


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Re: Los aliados y el Holocausto

Mensaje por wintermute » Sab Sep 01, 2012 12:52 am

Continuamos con la Declaración de Moscú en noviembre de 1943.
Ni media palabra con respecto al genocidio.

Aquí el documento específico sobre atrocidades.

http://www.profit-over-life.org/rolls.p ... &expand=no

En este enlace el documento traducido al idioma español y el resto de las resoluciones.

Seguimos en otro momento.


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Re: Los aliados y el Holocausto

Mensaje por Audie Murphy » Mar Abr 29, 2014 1:38 pm

Citizen Soldier: Nazi Concentration Camp Liberators

Mesa redonda americana con profesores universitarios, directores de museos y veteranos que estuvieron en Dachau

Más testimonios de veteranos

Liberation of Nazi Camps: Robert Patton (U.S. 65th Infantry)
"El mal existe cuando las personas buenas no hacen lo que es correcto"

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Re: Los aliados y el Holocausto

Mensaje por wintermute » Sab Jul 05, 2014 10:10 pm

Continuamos :

Reporte de Donovan a Roosevelt respecto a informes provenientes de Atenas resumiendo, a mi parecer, la situación de la población judía de Grecia.
Julio de 1944.


http://www.paperlessarchives.com/wwii-o ... ports.html


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Re: Los aliados y el Holocausto

Mensaje por Audie Murphy » Lun Jul 14, 2014 8:27 pm

27Pulqui escribió: Según las estadísticas de inmigración oficiales tomadas por Strauss (1) en los años críticos anteriores y de comienzos de la guerra (o sea cuando se dio la mayor afluencia de Alemania y Austria), en los Estados Unidos ingresaron alemanes y austríacos 17.870 en 1938, 27.370 en 1939 y 26.080 en 1940. Solamente en 1939 se completó el 100% de la cuota asignada a Alemania y Austria, es decir, pese a existir una cuota bastante restrictiva únicamente se alcanzó la totalidad en un solo año.
Del grupo de austriacos llegados a EEUU, podríamos destacar la desgarradora historia de los niños evacuados en la primavera de 1939 por el matrimonio Gilbert y Elanor Kraus. 600 Familias solicitaron participar en el plan, pero solamente había plazas para 25 niños y 25 niñas, los cuales no volvieron a ver con vida a sus padres biológicos.
http://www.jewishpost.com/events/50-chi ... ssion.html
http://www.nacion.com/ocio/tv-radio/Sal ... 64903.html

Su odisea personal y burocrática se narra en un documental de la HBO y el libro "50 Children: One Ordinary American Couple's Extraordinary Rescue Mission into the Heart of Nazi Germany" por Steven Pressman
http://www.hbo.com/documentaries/50-chi ... opsis.html#/

Los refugiados judíos del Saint Louis son un caso famoso, llevado incluso al cine, pero hubo otros barcos similares donde sus pasajeros no pudieron eludir un destino fatal. El "Flandre" y "Orinoco" no recibieron permisos para desembarcar sus pasajeros en puertos ingleses o sudamericanos, se desconoce la suerte que corrieron los judíos https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/es/article.ph ... d=10007330

"Evian 1938 - la conference de la peur" Documental galo sobre la infructuosa y fallida conferencia de Evian
http://www.france3.fr/emissions/documen ... eur_116370

Visionado completo en
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xxtsgf ... fin_webcam
"El mal existe cuando las personas buenas no hacen lo que es correcto"


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